26. Landscapes, prayers, and other ordinary magic (with Cody Cook-Parrott)
When Cody Cook-Parrott joined me to explore the word "landscape," I thought we'd talk about pretty views and garden design. Instead, we discovered poetry hiding in 1800s dictionary definitions, learned that landscape is secretly related to friendship (what?), and somehow ended up having a fascinating conversation about compost. As one does.
Tune in to learn…
Why looking up old dictionary definitions might be Cody's new favorite hobby (the 1828 version is particularly delightful)
A fresh perspective on collaborating with land (and what that actually means)
The surprisingly (or not so surprisingly?) deep connection between prayer and creativity
A whole new way to think about the spaces we inhabit, both inside and out
Don’t miss our latest drop—tune in now:
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Note: Transcripts are AI generated. Please excuse any errors! :)
Nicole: [00:00:00] Let's get started. , for those listening, I have Cody Cook Parrott with me today and Cody is a writer, an artist, a quilter, a teacher. , they also have a book coming out maybe like 10 days after we published this episode and it's called Look About You, A Book of Ordinary Prayers. , I've already pre ordered my copy, Cody, so I'm very excited.
Um, and Cody, having you here feels Like especially special because a lot of my guests this season, I met through your flexible office offering, which ran a few months. It was earlier this year, right? And we met a couple times a week and I got so much done. Anyway, yeah, maybe like a third of my guests. I think I met through that space.
Cody: That is. Truly, Nicole, that makes me feel emotional. Like I'm going to burst into tears because it's like, when I think about what is the point of my work or like, why, you know, especially as we're recording this sort of like in the circus of [00:01:00] election season and so much of the world feeling dark, it's like, Oh, I'm just like, that is why I do what I do to like connect the people.
So thank you for sharing that. That makes me feel really happy.
Nicole: Yeah. Thank you for like the spaces you create. I feel like you are a magnet for these really, really awesome people like doing cool things. So,
, is there anything else that you want people to know about you? Like before we get into our word right off the bat?
Cody: Um, Weirdly, I'm like, and I'm a dog parent. I'm like the other very important part of my personality is I have a dog and I'm obsessed with her and her name is June and she's perfect.
That's the only other thing that I want people to know about me.
Nicole: Um, I love that. Cause I'm also obsessed with my dog. Yes. Okay. So today we're talking about the word landscape. Which it was so fun to do some research on. And it's also the name of another space that you create, a writing group that's in progress.
Um, so I would love to start [00:02:00] by asking you, like, what is your personal connection with the word? And why did you choose it for this writing group?
Cody: Yeah, you know, I love naming things. It's one of my pleasures. Something I feel like people often say I'm really good at. It's definitely, like, a poetic. Strength that I love to flex and I love to start new projects and spaces and, and classes because I get to name them.
So, you know, ,a task I usually give myself when I name something is to grab. a couple books that I feel like are going to speak to me and I might go through my screenshots and my phone. I sort of like look to my research to see like, okay, what themes are coming through? I'll open to a random page.
I'll kind of skim. And I was reading a, Joanne Kiger book, the poet Joanne Kiger and a book of like essays and essays about her. [00:03:00] And There's a book of poetry that she wrote called The Tapestry and the Web, and I just loved that name, and then, like, later on the page it said something, Landscapes, and I was just like, oh, I want that word in the title somewhere, and then I looked through my screenshots and found a few other things that I just searched the word landscapes in my photos to be like, have I saved anything with that word and found like a few things.
And I was like, okay. And then I kept kind of trying to make it like landscapes and landscapes of, and then finally I was like, I think it's just called landscapes and landed there. But there's a really, important Agnes Varda quote. And maybe at some point in our interview, I can just read the whole, the long form version of it, because I often share the short form, which is, if we opened people up, we'd find [00:04:00] landscapes.
And then she says about herself, and if you opened me up, we'd find beaches. And it goes on, and it's very beautiful. But, , that's Agnes Varda's work as a director and filmmaker and documentarian is important to me. And so I had had that in my screenshots. And so, yeah, that was how Landscapes was named and how the word came into, came into form in that way.
Hmm,
Nicole: I love that. Oh my gosh, now I'm wondering if we opened me up what it would be.
Cody: What landscape would I be? It's funny because it's, I mean, I live just, you know, 15 minutes from the beach, so to me it's, that is, like, you open me up and you find beaches. So yeah, I really like that too. What do you think is in there, Nicole?
What's yours?
Nicole: Oh, I mean, I would have to say beaches.
So I'm cancer rising. So I feel like beaches are like where I, where I belong.
Cody: Yes. The sand. Yes. I love that. My North node is in Pisces. [00:05:00] And so also I feel the older I get, the more I sort of. I'm going towards this water, swimming, this, yeah, this water, being, or something,
Nicole: I love
Cody: that.
Nicole: , okay, I would love to talk about, , your earliest memories of the word landscape. Like, what was the first definition that you think was in, was in Cody's little brain?
Cody: You know, the first, my first thought is, like, landscaping, like a job, like a, Like a landscape architect or, or like, you know, I talk publicly a lot about like money and, and, and solvency.
And I think about like, like another early memory is sort of that like landscaping is for rich people. Like we do our own weeding and planting and landscapes and landscaping is like something a class above. So, [00:06:00] Yeah, that's sort of my first memory thought of the word landscape.
Nicole: Yeah, I think mine is similar or like a painting.
Maybe like an art history book in elementary school. Yeah, I feel like they had us paint like draw landscapes. Yes, really. Yeah,
Cody: and I'm not like I love abstract paintings, but I'm not a huge, like when I look around the art in my house, like I definitely don't have like art of a landscape. Exactly. Actually, I guess I do have one.
It's very beautiful. Okay. Actually, maybe I have more landscape, maybe I have more landscape art than I think I do. It really calls into mind like abstraction and like what, what, Is a landscape and what isn't one because I'm looking at my friend, this beautiful painting by my friend, Aaron Glasson, and it's, you know, an abstract it's shapes, but it's like, it [00:07:00] looks like how you'd see the earth from an airplane sort of like the circles and the squares of the landscape.
So I'm like, nevermind. All my art is about landscapes.
Nicole: I mean, I think as we get into this conversation, we're going to. feel like the word is much broader than maybe initial, thoughts indicate. Well, let's take a moment to dive into the definitions. , so , I'm going to read the modern definitions, uh, and also we'll get to look at the 1828 definition, um, from 200 years ago.
Cody: Amazing.
Nicole: And then, yeah, that's always super fun, because the definitions in 1828 are like incredibly poetic.
, and then we can dig into the etymology a bit. , so , the first definition is a picture representing a view of natural inland scenery.
Which is interesting to me, like. Natural inland scenery.
Wow. Inland. Okay. Yeah.
Cody: Well, it's interesting because in the Agnes [00:08:00] Varda quote, Mm hmm. She sep she it's like, is she separating beaches from landscapes? Or is she naming beaches as a landscape?
Nicole: Oh.
Cody: You know what I mean? She's like, in other people we find landscapes, in me we find beaches.
So is she saying, like, I'm different than everyone else, or that's my landscape?
Nicole: See, I, when you said it, I heard it as the second version, like, that's my landscape.
Cody: Yeah, I think I did too, but now I am sort of like, Yeah, interesting. Okay,
Nicole: well, the second definition is probably my favorite, which is a portion of territory that can be viewed at one time from one place
Cody: from one time at one place. That's good.
Nicole: Yeah, I think the reason I like it. Well, cause it's like everything. It makes me think like landscape is absolutely everything I can take in from standing in one place at one time. [00:09:00] So like what the question I was asking earlier of, can my picture of two trees be a landscape by this definition?
No. Um,
Cody: right, right. Cause you, your, your line of vision is going to hold so much more.
Nicole: Exactly. Yeah. So landscape to me, like, Fires vastness in that definition. Yeah. Yeah. What do you think?
Cody: I think so too. It's so interesting to be like, this conversation is really just making me take in my like one 80 view of my home and like the landscape outside that I can see through my window and what's the plants that are in front of me.
And I feel like this is where it ties into, because I guess I didn't really say like what the connection to writing is, like why, why a writing group is named that and I feel like this is maybe getting into part of the essence is like, [00:10:00] What can we see was maybe the question that I had, like, what's the landscape of like, I use the word inner landscape a lot, which is interesting.
It's like, which I think of as a really vast place. I love that.
Nicole: Well, yeah, and I love, like, I love the idea of it with writing too, because it's like taking a step back and like. Especially if you get stuck in writing, which happens all the time.
I know you've written about that too, , , but like when you get stuck, I think the best thing to do in writing, but in anything, right, is to take a step back and like take in the whole landscape. Cause when I get stuck, I find that I'm focusing like too much.
Same. Same. Yeah, and it's like when I get angry at someone like I'll get this like,
yeah,
Nicole: tunnel vision, I guess it's what the official name of it, right? , but like taking a step back and taking in the whole landscape, I think can be, it's very relaxing. Like it creates space in yourself to like, look at a lot of space and something [00:11:00] else.
Cody: Yeah, I feel like the, when a, when I, when a friend texts me to say they're spiraling about something, I feel like my advice is almost always like, okay, can we zoom out? Like, what happens if we zoom out? Like, what do we see? And yeah, when we really zoom high above, it's, We see the whole landscape, ,
Nicole: yeah, , I have a tarot deck, um, from foragers daughter.
That's really amazing. And the, the three of wands is just like a bird looking out over a landscape. I feel, yeah, I mean,
Cody: I use the, um, sort of classic Pamela Coleman Smith, Rider Waite tarot, and there's so much landscape. , and , my favorite book is by Rachel Pollack, , and Tarot book and, um, 70 degrees of wisdom, I think it's called.
And she writes a lot about just landscapes and. It's also where I got the word ordinary, , [00:12:00] for the title of the book, look about you, a book of ordinary prayers. , she writes a lot about just like the ordinary magic of everyday life and kind of like within the different landscapes. So yeah, I feel like that deck is there's always someone looking out to the world.
Nicole: . Yeah. Oh, I would love to talk more about inner landscapes. Is that like vastness of inner. Yeah. , like, how do you parallel, like if you think about external landscapes and inner landscapes like, , yeah, is how would you compare those
Cody: to me the inner landscape is.
sort of gives us, , like a metaphor or an opportunity to see this sort of closed space as really spacious. So it's like, okay, my, my body is only this size. It's not this like size of the world or like a meadow or a huge landscape, but it's Like it has [00:13:00] terrain,
like, I think
that that's maybe a word is like, there's, I see like winding coastal roads and going up over a mountain and like, yeah, my inner landscape from day to day or hour to hour is changing based on my mood or what I've eaten or what day of my cycle I'm at or what the weather is like, you know, there's so many things that affect the inner landscape and So it sort of just gives, it's like a chance to just sort of touch in and ask, like, what's going on in there and not have it be so, like you said, like tunnel vision, like a little more zoomed out.
Nicole: I love the ease, the word terrain.
Cody: Yeah, that's a good. That goes in the envelope with landscape.
Nicole: Yeah, yeah. Can you landscape your inner landscape?
Cody: Yeah. Can you landscape your inner terrain?
Nicole: Yeah. Um, which actually is a great, like it brings us to the verb definition, which is what we were talking [00:14:00] about earlier, right?
Like to modify or ornament a natural landscape by altering the plant cover.
Cody: To ornament. Oh, that's good. It sort of reminds me how, um, I love that like people in England or in the UK use the word holiday when they're talking about a vacation. There's some things like something about ornament or ornamental, or it makes me think of like holiday and celebration and what's the other word I'm looking for that starts with an A?
Like, um, adorn. Yeah, that's nice.
Nicole: Yeah. And it's interesting because it's this, it is, it's interesting to me because it's like this marrying of like the natural landscape and also like, Human altering it.
Cody: Yes. Yes, it's, it's a, I mean it, [00:15:00] well, okay, I'm gonna, I'm gonna say something that's gonna maybe open like a huge can of worms.
Love it. We'll open it and see what happens, but it also makes me think about like, You know, something I ask myself a lot as a white person, as a, as a landowner with the bank is like, what is being in right relationship with the land and the landscape. And I also often like my entry point is also like as a dancer and an improviser, and so I love what you just said, which makes me think about like.
Collaboration. Like, how do I collaborate with the land or the stewards of the land? Yeah, what does it look like to collaborate with the plants that are already here and to invite in new plants and Get to know, you know, what's already been growing here. What grows here. Well, and that's been my I've been doing a lot of gardening experience experiments, which I'm staring at right now, and they look absolutely nuts.
But, um, [00:16:00] but it's all good. So,
Nicole: . Yeah, I mean, it's hard to talk about the word landscape, I think, without getting into that. So I'm glad you brought it up. And just the, uh, the idea of lawns has always sat weird with me.
Cody: Yeah. Yeah. I, it's so interesting because I live on, I steward five acres of land, but very little of it is flat.
So it's mostly like ravined woods. I'm sort of up on a hill and then the rest kind of ravines down. , and there's this meadow that's in up over the ridge in the back. And last night I wrote in my journal, what if I visited the meadow every day? Because , the flat land that the house is on is very cocooned.
Like it's very surrounded by trees and the ravine. And it's easy to forget that I can just walk over the ridge to visit the meadow. , so I've been trying to even. Even think of like, what's my collaborative relationship with the land. And I had [00:17:00] a resident this summer, Nicole Fransco, and she's an amazing black and indigenous healer and artist and just amazing person.
And. She sort of tapped in to the land and was just like, , I'm sensing that the land is saying, like, I'm here, like, use me, like be in relationship with me. Like I'm here to support you and support projects and, whatever it is that you're doing. And so that was like a nice message to sort of receive of like, Oh yeah, it's easy for me.
To just be like, I live in a house and a yard , and surrounded by woods. It's like, no, there's a vastness to this five acres. And there's so many corners. It was even like, I've lived here for a year and like found myself in a new corner of the woods that I hadn't been in before. And it was like, Oh, , this is so cool down here.
Like, [00:18:00] cool. Um, so yeah, the landscape of even the place I live still surprises me and teaches me A lot.
Nicole: That's awesome. And it'll always be changing too. I feel like you'll never run out of new corners .
Cody: I don't think I will run out of new corners. I think that's a great way to put it. And I mean, what's amazing is like the corners are always changing, you know, it's like the rosebush never blooms the same each year, you know, the, the day lilies last a day and then form new ones and yeah, it's just, it's ever changing.
.
Nicole: , well, I love that you use the word collaboration, too, because I think that, like, And I feel like this is a metaphor for something, but it can get frustrating to try and make it the same every year. Right? Like, we can't control, like, how much it rains or the winds or, you know, the hurricanes. And so to try and make it the same every year.
I [00:19:00] mean, that's what gets us into trouble as like in our businesses and in our lands, like the need to try to make it consistent as the landscape around us changes.
Cody: Yeah. I mean, it brings up, I've been thinking a lot this year, you know, I changed my name at the beginning of this year and I mean, the landscape of a name and that the landscape of a business is really been on my mind as the year carries on , and just making less money than I have in the past.
And that, that is, , I've had seasons of like dips, but I've never had like a full year of making less money until this year. And, yeah, it's, it's, it's both uncomfortable and feels. on time in its own strange way, but yeah, the landscape of businesses. I'm like, is a great name for my next class.
The terrain, the terrain of business. Okay. I'm going to write that down.
Nicole: Yeah. I love that you're so [00:20:00] good at that. I write for a living, but I am terrible at naming things. .
Cody: I think this is true with a lot. I mean, most of my writer friends will text me and be like, okay, I have to name this thing, like, what's it called?
Or they'll, they'll have like a few names. And then want me to pick one. , so I think it's, it's really common. And I actually saw, I don't remember if I apologized to the person who it was. I don't remember. I feel like it was maybe somebody who was in flexible office or took landscapes, but was like a naming specialist.
Like I remember looking at their website and it was like, their specialty was like naming things. And I was, I was kind of like, okay, that I should have a side business. That's that. So
Nicole: Hey, I'll let you know if I've got a branding project. I'll reach out. Okay. Thank you. Thank you. , okay.
And then the last definition, which I don't think we'll spend too long on, but I want to mention it because I was like, Oh, I forgot all about that one a rectangular document or image having a horizontal horizontal [00:21:00] dimension longer than the vertical dimension. Like printing a document in landscape.
Cody: Oh, landscape.
Oh my god, Nicole, this is so fun. Like, I know, I, I don't know if everybody on your podcast has this much fun, but I'm like, Ugh, this is, I mean, this is poetry. This is, and you know that. That is amazing. I would have totally, yeah, portrait or landscape.
Nicole: , I would have totally forgotten it.
Cody: Just yesterday I had to print some things in landscape.
There
Nicole: you go. Yeah, I rarely ever do. Anymore. Yeah.
Cody: Yeah, I was printing, um, inserts to go in all the packages for people's books that say on purple paper to match the book and my nails that say like, um, take this class that's coming up or join landscapes. And yeah, I literally said join landscapes in landscapes.
Nicole: Okay, let's look at the 1828 definition. Which isn't so different from the modern one, but I love the way they say it. So [00:22:00] it's a portion of land or territory which the eye can comprehend in a single view. including mountains, rivers, lakes, and whatever the land contains.
Cody: Whatever the land contains.
Okay, hold on. I have to go grab something from just over here. It's something I'm reading for school right now. Oh, it's from 1892. And it is the stream of consciousness by William James.
It's sort of like a heavy psychology essay about consciousness. Apparently, the 1800s were all about hiding poetry in
these definitions, because he's talking about how consciousness is in constant change. And he says, Does not the same grass give us the same feeling of green, the same sky, the same feeling of blue, like he's like defining, like how we, [00:23:00] like every thought is its own thought. Like it doesn't. Go off another or they do go off another one, but I'm, I'm probably explaining this badly.
But anyways, does not the same grass give us the same feeling of green? I like underlined him like, Oh my God. Um, anyways, 1800s. They were really popping off with their hidden poetry.
Nicole: Uh, yeah, I love that. I feel like that's, that feels like such a simple sentence, but like I have to think about it. Like I wanna go sit out at the grass and like, sit out and stare at the grass and be like, is this true?
Cody: Well, and it's like the same plant, like when you look at, like I'm looking at my Flowers right now, which are the cosmos are really hanging on through this cold weather, but, , it's like how they're blowing in the wind and it's like, yeah, they're in a different even like the little centimeter of where they are within the air of space is different every time.
And especially right now here in [00:24:00] Michigan, the fall and the leaves changing is such a like. I mean, that is the most epic change that happens every year or when they come back, I suppose. They can fight for who is the biggest, who's the biggest transition. They both feel
Nicole: like pretty big transitions.
Yes, they both feel pretty big,
Cody: yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. , okay, wait, will you read the last line one more time?
Nicole: Yeah, . A portion of land or territory which the eye can comprehend in a single view. including mountains, rivers, lakes, and whatever the land contains.
Cody: Whatever the land contains is just like infinite. I mean that part, I'm like, that's like the squirrels and the deer and the, and the mycelial, pathways, you know, it's like, there's just everything.
Nicole: I love that you said that, like the landscape containing the seen and the unseen.
Cody: Yeah, [00:25:00] yeah, the seen and the unseen.
Yeah, it's like everything that is below. I mean, that's why the class as above so below is, you know, rings true in this as well,
Nicole: um, and I feel like you'll appreciate this. So I'm going to read it. So as you know, I like in dictionaries, they give example sentences often like this is how you use the word.
It's the example sentence from 1828. Whilst the landscape round it measures, russet lawns and fallows gray, where the nibbling flocks do stray. Oh,
Cody: and we can end it there. No, I'm just kidding. Let's keep talking. But I'm like, oh my god.
Yeah. You have the funnest podcast ever.
I don't know, I'm like,
Cody: this is so cool. I, it, I mean, it really just makes me want to. dig into my own, my own research more. It's like, cause you know, I'll name something and then just kind of move on. It's named that like, I sometimes forget to [00:26:00] like, keep looking. Yeah.
Nicole: Well, I think what would be fun, like in your situation, like naming something without doing the research and then doing the research and being like, Oh, this was, The right word, the right name more than I even
Cody: consciously realized. Yes, and that's always happens. That's what I'm experiencing in real time, for sure.
Yeah, yeah.
Nicole: But that's awesome. I love that, like, it still feels right after doing all the research. It's definitely, if anything, it feels more
right. Mm hmm.
Nicole: I love it. , okay. Etymology. Let's dive in. So, I looked at the etymology of the word landscape, of course, but then also like land and scape, uh, and land actually is, um, kind of open for debate, like the earliest etymology, they're like, maybe it's this, maybe it's this, but as far back as they're sure the old English is, , Land, which is ground, [00:27:00] soil, and also a definite portion of the Earth's surface, home region of a person or a people, territory marked by political boundaries.
, landscape is, so it goes back to 1600, which is . From the Dutch, landschap, , which is from the Middle Dutch, which is land, which is like region, and also schap, which is ship. So not like ship as in boat though, like ship as in the suffix that we also have in friendship.
So , just to like summarize, , land as in natural scenery, , or region, and ship as in the condition of being in ship with something else.
Cody: Listeners cannot see my jaw on zephyr. Yes. Um, well, as you may or may not know, Nicole and listeners, I used to have a. radio show in Madre, New Mexico called Friendship Village, which was named [00:28:00] after a book of the same title by Zona Gale. , I think also maybe written in it. No, maybe like 1908 or something, early 1900s.
, That was about the like small town that my dad grew up in, um, in Wisconsin. Anyways, I love friendship. I love ship. I love thinking about landscape. I'm like land ship. I'm thinking, oh, that's so cool. Words are so awesome.
Nicole: Well, and it reminds me of what , you were already saying earlier, like before you knew this definition of this collaboration, like land ship.
Um, my brain just was like, wait, is the word landscape or landship?
Cody: I know, I know, me too. I was like, I think you mean landship.
Nicole: Um, but yeah, the idea of collaboration in landscaping is like part of the etymology, right? This ship, this kind of thing. Connection.
Cody: I love that. There's these, I'm really caught. Well, I often stare out the window when I'm on a zoom call, but, , [00:29:00] I'm really caught by there's like these maybe like seven yellow leaves that are like really hanging out for dear life on this one branch. And they're making like the most beautiful little lettering.
motions with the wind right now. But it's like, yeah, it's like also not just me in collaboration with, but all these trees and leaves and in collaboration with each other, I mean, I'm always thinking about like the duet and the, and the group and how to like, and our entry, our entrances and exits and. Like it's so, I'm also thinking about, um, I started properly composting this year, and that feels like another really big like land collaboration to be like, Oh, these leaves, I can gather them and put them in the compost, and they become back into come back into which all started because I got a camper and took out the regular toilet and put in a bucket toilet.
And [00:30:00] built, , like a human newer compost system, , which is very cool. And I read a whole book about it and I love talking about composting poop. If anyone ever wants to discuss that and feels so connected to like being in relationship to the land. And, yeah, I'm not, I'm definitely not much of like a homesteader, but then I, I do have these little.
Efforts that I think, I hope, Are helpful to dabbling dabbling and I'm a I'm a homestead dabbler. Exactly.
Nicole: Uh, but yeah, like just the what you're saying makes me think of course of like the diagram of cycles, you know, like the cycle of rain or the cycle of poop, right? Like the cycle that the land needs
yeah, and the landscape. I love that you mentioned to the leaves and the trees and a human doesn't have to be part of this, this cycle, but can be.
Yeah, yeah.
Nicole: Um, awesome. All [00:31:00] right. Let's talk a little bit about the way we're kind of seeing the word landscape used now, like today, like we've done, we've dug, we've digged, we've dug, we've dug into the past.
Yeah. Um, how, how do you see the word landscape being used like on the internet?
Cody: I feel like it's used in a pretty Pretty poetic way. The way I see people use it. I feel like it's like, you know, a word that really, I feel like got big in the last year or two and that I use a lot is ecosystem.
So it's
Cody: like, I think a lot about like my business ecosystem and I know Amelia uses that on off the grid and I've definitely seen Ayanna Zerricotton use it.
And. Yeah, I feel like it's just, yeah, the ecosystem and like world building and I see like the word landscape sort of fitting into that lineage of [00:32:00] words of just like world, place, ecosystem, kind of just also like using a lot of like plant and gardening metaphors, I feel like is I don't want to say really big right now, but it's like, , maybe a theme that's emerging amongst artists and thinkers and cultural workers.
And I feel like I see people who are interested in like permaculture design and like that side of like landscaping now is less like. How to make pretty shrubs in front of your mansion, and is now more like permaculture and how do we, and like the conversation is like, how do we collaborate with the land, and then there's the conversation around land back and like how do we restore land to Indigenous communities or be in reciprocal relationship or in a relationship of paying a land tax [00:33:00] or a mutual aid fund, or if you have an abundance of land, returning some of it.
So, yeah, I think that's where I mostly see the word or the idea of landscape existing.
Nicole: Yeah, I do feel like like business landscape or economic landscape or marketing landscape, it's like marketing landscape. Yeah, yeah. And people talking about like the current marketing landscape and what you should do differently because I'm like, it's happening.
I'm like, it's bad. Yeah. So I'm just kidding. It's no it's it's rough right 2024 has been rough for a lot of businesses that I've worked with. ,
Cody: pretty much everyone I know is having a A lower income year for sure. Um, and, and every sort of medium modality structure of business. , Yeah, I've talked to very few people who are like, Oh, my business is thriving.
Like, and I sometimes talk to people who [00:34:00] say that and that has not been a commonality this year.
Nicole: , no, I agree. I work with a lot of a lot of. Digital product creators and course creators and everyone is, , if, if they're doing the same as they did last year, it's because they're trying a bunch of different things and doing a lot of work, you know, , it's not as easy as it was.
Yeah.
Cody: Yeah. That part, it's like, even if my earning is, well, my earning is lower than last year, but, but I'm twice as exhausted.
Nicole: Yeah.
Cody: It's like, I'm working twice as hard and it's less and that's, and that's tiring.
But I also, I also want to add in like, and I'm grateful, like, haven't missed a mortgage payment, paying off my, paying off my debt, like the dog is fed, I'm fed, the roof is over the head, you know, I try to, you know, I zoom out as we talked about to the landscape and it's, it's, it's hard to, to like want to hold both.
And [00:35:00] especially, , when we live in a world where My problems are very, very small , in the landscape of everything else that's going on. So I try to make sure I'm like right sized in that. And how do I also like still give it the airtime that it needs, , to be honest with like where I am and, and how the current economic landscape affects me.
Nicole: Yeah, I'm glad you brought back zoom out because I think the landscape again, like we go back to the scene in the unseen, like there's always something else. If you look again,
Cody: thank you.
Nicole: Yeah, that was for me too.
, cool. I want to start to wrap by talking a bit more about your book, um, um, cause I'm so excited about it.
I just reread your post about it early, right before we talked, but yeah, I think as I was rereading the post this morning, I was thinking how like look about you. It does have that connection with [00:36:00] landscape. I think the description you use, you said it comes from Michigan's state motto, if you seek a pleasant peninsula, look about you.
So I was like, oh, it's landscape.
Cody: It's literally landscape. Yes. I mean, I literally live on a peninsula off a peninsula. Like, You couldn't be more on the way to nowhere. Um, like you don't have to drive through the only if you're driving through Cedar Michigan, it's 'cause you're on your way to the beach or another small town on the way to the beach.
So yeah, it's, I really, I've always really loved that phrase. And, yeah, Hurley Winkler, who is, , in flexible office and a reader suggested that name and I was just like. It's been just under my nose the whole time is how it kind of felt. Um, but yeah, it really, I think I knew it tied into landscapes, but like after this conversation and now naming [00:37:00] it, I'm like, wow.
Um, and to me is so connected to prayer just because it is this, like. Yeah. Taking in, taking it all in is part of praying and paying and like to me, praying and paying attention are hand in hand. So
Nicole: . Yeah. I was going to ask you that question if you want to talk more about it, like that connection between landscape and prayer, like how do you see that, especially how it happens in your book?
Yeah.
Cody: Yeah. You know, the book is really rooted in,, to me, it's. To me, praying is part of how I create a landscape of action.
Like,
Cody: I feel like they're not, you know, it's like a common, like meme trope is like, we don't need thoughts and prayers, we need action. Which, I don't know. Yeah, of course.
Like, I think that that has a very important place. It's like, the point is like, we don't need thoughts and prayers for [00:38:00] school shootings. We need better gun laws. You know, it's like, I, I agree with the sentiment and to me. When I'm in relationship with my higher power and a practice of prayer, I am filled with a lot more hope and resilience and capacity to take action.
So to me, the book is not just sort of like a flitty, like, yes, pray self care. Like it's really the, the hope to me is like, have a prayer practice so that you can go take on this. World, you know, that is for many of us, not built around systems of care and trust and expansion. So, you know, , my hope is that it really does help people.
And, and a lot of it is about the book, you know, , it really follows the seasons. So it's, you know, , it's definitely written by someone who lives in Northern Michigan. [00:39:00] So , you know, it's like talking about attending to the wood stove for now. So you might have to, um, flip, flip some of the pages or something.
I'll transport myself. Yeah, exactly. Um, but yeah, so it's very seasonal and connected to. , I, I feel like seasonality in the way that, that I, I wrote a lot of it right in this chair where I'm sitting in my house , and really wrote it while I watched spring turn to summer turn to fall.
And so that was a cool sort of time . To touch in with the prayers and channel them and yeah, I know for me, sort of like the history of daily readers, both in 12 steps and outside of them really just grounds me for being a better citizen of the world. So that is my hope that that it inspires others to [00:40:00] take action.
Nicole: , I love the way you're talking about prayer is it seems almost like it's like there's thoughts or there's looking at a landscape and then there's praying on a landscape and then there's like doing like it almost feels like a required. Maybe requires too strong of a word, but an intermediary, like a step that must be taken before the action.
Cody: I love that. I mean, I think that helps me think of like , the two hopes of the book are that it brings people into more Action.
And I don't necessarily mean like becoming an activist as much as I just mean, like being a better neighbor and being more involved in, in local politics or using your newsletter to shine a light on organizations that are important to you. Like it can be really simple, but you know, just weaving to me, it's about like weaving in our values into prayer and [00:41:00] action, and so there's that side of it.
And then the other side is , the book is very much for anyone, but it's also really for, I don't want to say it's for artists and creative people, but it's for people to tap into or back into like a creative purpose. And so the book is also about very much like get to your writing, get to your journal, like grab a disposable camera and go outside.
Like it has some small sort of like prompts or encouragements throughout that are really about like. Focus on your creative practice, focus on the way that you are giving back to the world that you're in and that praying gets to be a part of that. . And somehow I wrote 366 of them, which is still, boggling my own mind.
And I've now read it many times and say, it's a really good book. It's really fun. It's really, it's serious, but it's also playful. [00:42:00] And, , I'm really proud of it and excited for, actually they, they get here today. So it's a fun day to get to talk about this because the box of 200 of them will be on the doorstep in a couple hours.
Nicole: Oh my gosh, that's so exciting. Oh, that must feel so good. You're gonna tear open the box and you're gonna I know I feel like I need
Cody: to I don't I don't really want to but I feel like I Need to like make an unboxing video. So maybe I will and we'll see. Yeah. I want to see that. Okay. Great. If, if for any, I'll do it for you.
There we go. Yeah.
Nicole: , okay. Well, , where can people pre order this book?
Cody: . So if you order by the 12th, hypothetically, if the USPS does this job correctly, as they often do, God bless, , they'll be to you by the 19th, which is the Tuesday, November 19th.
It's official release day, . So it's globally distributed. So you can find it on Amazon, Barnes and Noble bookshop. , and there you can. [00:43:00] Order international shipping as well. And it's, it's also on my website. So that's where if you get it from my website, you get like a cute little postcard in your thing as well.
And like my business card and it comes in a cute package. , and that's for us shipping. And you can also buy. God freak bumper stickers from my website, which was like a fun extra thing we made, , shout out to Alyssa Netochi, who is the designer of the book and Jacqueline Susskind, who edited the book. I should make sure to name both of them.
, , so yeah, my website or kind of wherever books are sold on the internet, you should be able to find it. So.
Nicole: Awesome. And we will put that link in the show notes and the
newsletter so people can get there easily.
Cody: , and Nicole, I would love to read this Agnes Varda quote if you have me. Please do. I would love to.
Unless you have another
Nicole: question or thought. Well, my only final question is, do you feel differently about the word than you did at the beginning?
Cody: Oh my God, I've never been more obsessed with the word. You [00:44:00] changed my life today. I'm like, Oh my God, I'm going to do this with like every single word I've ever thought of.
It's, it's also actually the other thing that feels really helpful is, even like the thing I read from, , That, that I'm reading for school is like, it's, it's, I'm using a really new part of my brain reading for school and just reading way more in general. And , my reading comprehension is getting better, but I just run into words or ideas or phrases where I'm just, I'm just like, I have no idea what that is saying or means.
And so, , it's helpful, like it sounds so simple, but it's helpful to just be like, I can look words up and that will help me probably. , so yeah, it's, I'm, I'm, I'm touched not only by thinking about landscape, Slash landscapes, but also just word research feels really cool. So
Nicole: amazing. That's the best, best possible outcome.
Okay, [00:45:00] great. Let's, let's close with a quote. I would love to do that.
Cody: Okay. If we opened people up, we'd find landscapes. If we opened me up, we'd find beaches. Memory is like sand in my hand. I keep some and some is going. The beaches are the thread, and it's true that I've been on beaches all my life. I know that if I need the ideal place, it's the perfect one for me.
This has nothing to do with swimming or surfing or sailing. It's the pleasure of watching the beach, which means watching the sky and the sea. And if you go at a different time, it can be different light and weather. It can be white or it can be flat. I love it when it's almost flat. It's so pure that it's like the beginning of the world.
And it allows me, as a metaphor, to believe that I was always on the beach in my mind.
Nicole: That is beautiful. Thank you so much.
Cody: Yes, and that was Agnes [00:46:00] Varda, From the Beaches of Agnes, which is an amazing movie about her life
Nicole: Well, thank you so much, Cody. It has been so wonderful having you on. I appreciate you. This
Cody: was so fun. I love to be in the lineage of flexible office friends who have been on the show and, , so grateful. So thank you, Nicole.
Looking for more info about Cody?
Cody's new book "Look About You: A Book of Ordinary Prayers" arrives November 19th! Pre-order by Nov 12th to get it release week:
Through Cody's website (comes with thoughtfully chosen extras)
Or find it wherever books are sold online
If that link's not working, just head to Cody's website (www.codycookparrott.com) and click "Online Shop."
We also mentioned:
Agnes Varda's "The Beaches of Agnes" (which contains the most perfect quote about landscapes and memory)
"70 Degrees of Wisdom" by Rachel Pollack (for insights into ordinary magic)
And I leave you with this…
LANDSCAPE, noun
c. 1600, "painting representing an extensive view of natural scenery," from Dutch landschap "landscape," in art, a secondary sense from Middle Dutch landscap "region," from land "land".
